1. It occurred to me the other day that both centrists and libertarians claim the territory of being fiscally/economically conservative and social liberal. That's kind of interesting.
2. It also occurred to me that there's a strong probability I'll have to vote for the libertarian in the governor's race. I mentioned that to Kate last night and she said "oh it's that bad, huh?". It made me think that it wouldn't turn out so bad - he's not off the walls, and anyway the General Assembly wouldn't let him do anything to crazy. Libertarians in a divided government might do alright. And then I remembered the shutdown and how many libertarians online were actually encouraging that as a good thing - and in that case all it took was giving libertarians a small foothold in the Congress. So I don't know...
Friday, October 25, 2013
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Regarding (1), "Declaration of Independents" by Welch and Gillespie brah.
ReplyDeleteRegarding (2), it depends on whether centrist, moderate libertarians are elected or hair-on-fire tea party activists are elected. A theme I've never properly articulated is the need for a political party restructuring wherein Gary Johnson is at the extreme and people like Josh Barro and Matt Yglesias are the moderates. It might happen when libertarian political strategists realize that "post-moderns" are a separate group from libertarians and not just libertarians (see Pethokoukis's post from a few months back at AEIdeas). I guess that contradicts what I just said about Welch and Gillespie but whatever.
"fiscally/economically conservative and social liberal"
ReplyDeleteI'm a libertarian (or at least I claim to be), but I'm pretty sure that I'd never make such a claim. To be honest, I don't understand what such a statement has to do with libertarianism in the first place (even if it made sense outside of a confused metaphorical context). I think that it's more of an attempt of "libertarians" (i.e. inconsistent libertarians/political libertarians) to appeal to the more general political arena. It's like some sort of sad appeal to both sides of the statist quo.
In practice, conservatives aren't in favor of economic freedom just as modern liberals aren't in favor of individual freedom (though they've both got a lot of talk, but they're both generally full of shit). So whenever I see anybody saying the above quote regarding liberarianism, I keep a good and watchful eye on them, because I know that chances are that they'll be stealing my shit or impeding my personal choices. I think that I'll pass on voting un favor of such clowns ...
Politicians are a breed all of their own, it doesn't matter much what letter that you put next to their name.
I would dispute your use of the word "freedom" here, which is one of the nice things about talking in terms of liberalism and conservatism. It's like this euphemism "the liberty movement" when what is meant is "the libertarian movement". Let's not assume out own conclusions, Joe.
DeleteOkey dokey, I'll be a little more concise.
DeleteLiberals and conservatives often talk as if they only support negative rights and negative obligations in social and economics issues respectively, but in practice, they almost always create positive rights and obligations by way of statute. Libertarians generally reject all positive rights and obligations other than those imposed upon oneself (Ex: If you cannot swim, and I push you into a pool, I have created a positive right to you and a positive obligation to me, which is me saving you from drowning). Therefor, it seems pretty absurd for a libertarian to say that they are economically conservative and socially liberal, at least if they hope to be consistent.
*Excuse me, "created by one's own actions", not "imposed upon oneself".
DeleteIt also occurred to me that there's a strong probability I'll have to vote for the libertarian in the governor's race. I mentioned that to Kate last night...
ReplyDelete"You're not the man I married!"
"both centrists and libertarians claim [to be] social liberal."
ReplyDeleteThey are probably using very different definitions of "social liberal".
You are married and a father now so it is time to set aside such childish things as flirting with Libertarianism.
ReplyDeleteNah - a kid is an excuse to act MORE childish. Finally someone in the house gets where I'm coming from!
DeleteGood call Absalon. In a few years Daniel will take her to the park and say, "Now honey, you can't use the other kids' tricycles unless they give you permission. Unless you can convince an economist to declare there would be a positive externality. Then it's OK to take their stuff without their permission."
DeleteBob - I guess when you stop framing issues in terms of false choices, you will stop being a libertarian.
Delete