tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post216336964213528151..comments2024-03-27T03:00:27.024-04:00Comments on Facts & other stubborn things: Karl Smith grapples with secular justification of moralityEvanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12259004160963531720noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-40121656657798185852012-04-23T19:16:50.448-04:002012-04-23T19:16:50.448-04:00Answer the second question please :)Answer the second question please :)Mattheus von Guttenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09404889240800715511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-26474745482709857602012-04-23T11:45:09.846-04:002012-04-23T11:45:09.846-04:00"Among my experiments was this. In an hour I ..."Among my experiments was this. In an hour I taught a cat and a dog to be friends. I put them in a cage. In another hour I taught them to be friends with a rabbit. In the course of two days I was able to add a fox, a goose, a squirrel and some doves. Finally a monkey. They lived together in peace; even affectionately.<br />"Next, in another cage I confined an Irish Catholic from Tipperary, and as soon as he seemed tame I added a Scotch Presbyterian from Aberdeen. Next a Turk from Constantinople; a Greek Christian from Crete; an Armenian; a Methodist from the wilds of Arkansas; a Buddhist from China; a Brahman from Benares. Finally, a Salvation Army Colonel from Wapping. Then I stayed away two whole days. When I came back to note results, the cage of Higher Animals was all right, but in the other there was but a chaos of gory odds and ends of turbans and fezzes and plaids and bones and flesh -- not a specimen left alive. These Reasoning Animals had disagreed on a theological detail and carried the matter to a Higher Court."<br /><br />-- Mark Twain, "The Damned Human Race"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-22977744382558178872012-04-23T07:28:09.401-04:002012-04-23T07:28:09.401-04:00"What is your stance on ethics"
I am a ...<i>"What is your stance on ethics"</i><br /><br />I am a proponent of them :)Daniel Kuehnhttp://www.factsandotherstubbornthings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-89528492097403911782012-04-23T07:27:06.782-04:002012-04-23T07:27:06.782-04:00No, it's not like saying that at all. I never ...No, it's not like saying that at all. I never said there was no basis. I'm saying the justification is not strong for their particular grounding of ethics. Physics absolutely has a basis - why would you think I was saying anything like that? It also has strong justification. String theory has comparatively <i>less</i> justification its true (just like much of macroeconomics), which is why people argue it. But you're muddying the waters by claiming I said this. Why muddy the waters Gene?Daniel Kuehnhttp://www.factsandotherstubbornthings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-51034023857330226662012-04-23T07:24:59.378-04:002012-04-23T07:24:59.378-04:00If it's not nice why do you do the same thing ...If it's not nice why do you do the same thing below? It's true - that's probably just a synopsis at best.Daniel Kuehnhttp://www.factsandotherstubbornthings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-44187678990340705262012-04-23T07:21:21.282-04:002012-04-23T07:21:21.282-04:00Yep.Yep.Daniel Kuehnhttp://www.factsandotherstubbornthings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-51946421510195103812012-04-22T23:42:29.424-04:002012-04-22T23:42:29.424-04:00What is your stance on ethics, Daniel? On what mor...What is your stance on ethics, Daniel? On what moral source do you make claims regarding right and wrong, proper and improper, moral and immoral?Mattheus von Guttenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09404889240800715511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-47438667287991770132012-04-22T18:50:54.598-04:002012-04-22T18:50:54.598-04:00"then try and tell me with a straight face th..."then try and tell me with a straight face that non-secular ethicists have a solid justification for their ethics."<br /><br />Aargh. Even worse. That's just like saying "Physicists have no basis for their science, since they disagree about string theory."gcallahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10065877215969589482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-83860883116385960712012-04-22T18:47:55.300-04:002012-04-22T18:47:55.300-04:00"It's written in a book - that's the ..."It's written in a book - that's the justification"<br /><br />Daniel, Daniel, Daniel... it's not nice to put stupid things in the mouths of others.gcallahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10065877215969589482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-8785054072637007712012-04-22T16:46:56.142-04:002012-04-22T16:46:56.142-04:00Daniel, this is exactly what John Rawls sets out t...Daniel, this is exactly what John Rawls sets out to do on <i>A Theory of Justicr</i> and <i>Political Liberalism</i>. He calls it political pluralism.Jonathan MFChttp://www.economicthought.net/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-65968848055868902322012-04-22T13:47:55.350-04:002012-04-22T13:47:55.350-04:00I think there are a couple issues all bundled up i...I think there are a couple issues all bundled up in that thought.<br /><br />First, the question of monotheism is a question of fact. It may or may not be a fact that we have sure access to with our faculties, but it either is or isn't the case.<br /><br />The other thing I'm caught up on is this line "whether ethics need...". It really gets to "what is ethics". I'm not an ethicist so perhaps I'm the wrong person to speak to this, but it seems to me that ethics is just normative parameters for living together in a way that's preferential for one reason or another.<br /><br />So let's bring this full circle.<br /><br />Monotheism is or is not a fact. If it's a fact it probably has ethical implications and thus ethics ought to be grounded in it (or <i>can</i> be grounded in it... you can still have functional secular ethics even if monotheistic metaphysics is also true. There are lots of monotheists who accept secular ethics in this country, for example, and it hasn't seemed to be a problem at all.) If it's not a fact you're suggesting that may imply the impossibility of ethics. That may be the case.<br /><br />I'm not sure why one would think ethics needs monotheism unless you just define it in a way that would need it (such as "ethics is an understanding of human interaction striving after a metaphysical ideal"). I'm not sure how you would demonstrate that that's what a relevant ethics is. It seems so common for people not to think of ethics strictly in that way (we often think of it as a general normative framework, or as an understanding of human interaction striving after some ideal - not necessarily a metaphysical ideal type) that I think trying to talk about it in this way would come across as assuming your own conclusions.<br /><br />The other thing about the tribalism you make at the end is that it seems like the tribalism emerges anyway even if you start with the metaphysical ideal.Daniel Kuehnhttp://www.factsandotherstubbornthings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-20478246982318007732012-04-22T13:31:45.908-04:002012-04-22T13:31:45.908-04:00A more interesting basic question, I think, is whe...A more interesting basic question, I think, is whether ethics need some sort of <i>monotheism</i> to function. Setting aside particular religious orthodoxies, is a necessary theoretical basis of morality some metaphysical ideal that can fund an ethical universalism (as opposed to the tribalism of various scriptures or customs)?Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259004160963531720noreply@blogger.com