tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post1081379279731838225..comments2024-03-27T03:00:27.024-04:00Comments on Facts & other stubborn things: More thoughts on the Corey Robin essay, with no particular structureEvanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12259004160963531720noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-25099052043131505592013-06-27T19:24:12.421-04:002013-06-27T19:24:12.421-04:00So Current, have at it. Anxiously awaiting your in...So Current, have at it. Anxiously awaiting your in depth, expert, critique.Tim Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616182456644534789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-27476411694195697322013-06-27T19:21:31.709-04:002013-06-27T19:21:31.709-04:00So Current, have at it. Anxiously awaiting your in...So Current, have at it. Anxiously awaiting your in depth, expert, critique.Tim Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616182456644534789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-6355980892987992522013-05-18T01:01:56.437-04:002013-05-18T01:01:56.437-04:00It's not damning at all. Nietzsche was in fa...It's not damning at all. Nietzsche was in fact written in all three polls, the magazine noted that he would ranked higher than several names on the list in the second poll, and "highly ranked" in the third poll.<br /><br />This leaves out that in all three polls Nietzche is the second-most written in name. The first is different in all three polls. So, fine, Nietzsche is kind of popular but not uniquely popular among write-ins, and there aren't really all that many write-ins (the ranking is based on both the number and the rating, and people writing in a name rank it highly.) It wasn't really a particularly scientific or thorough survey so it would be foolish for Robin to base his article on it. <br /><br />Fortunately, he didn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-14420997449897834452013-05-16T14:27:17.774-04:002013-05-16T14:27:17.774-04:00The magazine didn't add Nietzsche, they simply...The magazine didn't add Nietzsche, they simply noted the write-ins. <br /><br />It is damning; thanks to Hume for posting it. :)<br /> The Libertarian Standard Bearerhttp://www.thestandardisthestandard.isthestandard.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-4102342701237273962013-05-16T10:28:52.620-04:002013-05-16T10:28:52.620-04:00I wonder who the second one was that said Nietzsch...I wonder who the second one was that said Nietzsche was a big influence.<br /><br />My understanding is the magazine added Nietzsche because he was so popular - perhaps the other two don't reflect 1999? Seems odd that they'd add him for 2% don't you think?<br /><br />Anyway, Zwolinski may be exactly right about this but I think LSB is wrong to say it's "damning". Clearly the essay itself didn't make the claim that Nietzsche was a direct influence on a lot of modern libertarians. So what's the big deal (at least in the context of the essay - which is, after all, what I'm writing about)?Daniel Kuehnhttp://www.factsandotherstubbornthings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-70726628122350285962013-05-16T10:26:18.138-04:002013-05-16T10:26:18.138-04:00I've said pretty much what I have to say. Were...I've said pretty much what I have to say. Were you expecting some kind of massive implosion? What should be fun?Daniel Kuehnhttp://www.factsandotherstubbornthings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-24880111514544469392013-05-16T10:19:39.952-04:002013-05-16T10:19:39.952-04:00Current,
Just let Kuehn go down this particular r...Current,<br /><br />Just let Kuehn go down this particular rabbit hole. The results should be fun. :)The Libertarian Standard Bearerhttp://www.thestandardisthestandard.isthestandard.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-52736070280356830322013-05-16T10:08:25.863-04:002013-05-16T10:08:25.863-04:00That's pretty damning.That's pretty damning. The Libertarian Standard Bearerhttp://www.thestandardisthestandard.isthestandard.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-63736766594957343192013-05-15T20:55:29.012-04:002013-05-15T20:55:29.012-04:00"Deirdre McCloskey makes connections between ..."Deirdre McCloskey makes connections between what advocates like to term "free market economics", subjectivism, and postmodernism all the time and she gets widely (and rightly) praised for making the tie. But when Corey Robin comes along and makes the same argument for a critical cornerstone of later postmodernism people lose it. I don't buy it, guys."<br /><br />Yes, but McCloskey is a economist with decades of experience and training. She knows the economics side cold. Does Robin? Not that I know of.John Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-47338842587636510052013-05-15T20:47:37.443-04:002013-05-15T20:47:37.443-04:00"My impression is that the latter is right&qu..."My impression is that the latter is right"<br /><br />Based on what initially? Nothing, it seems.<br /><br />And congratulations to Robin on trolling--it's been a massive success in wasting everyone's time.John Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-46758718455519055412013-05-15T17:18:10.263-04:002013-05-15T17:18:10.263-04:00For what it's worth, Matt Zwolinski left the f...For what it's worth, Matt Zwolinski left the following comment in the Vallier thread. Make of it what you will:<br /><br />"Corey sent me an early draft of his essay over email, and we had a brief conversation about Nietzsche and libertarianism. He said that he thought that a number of libertarians came to their philosophy through Nietzsche. I said that I didn't personally know about any who did. And I know a fair number of libertarians. However, I knew that Liberty Magazine did a decennial poll of its readers, and that one of the questions they asked was about intellectual influences. I didn't remember what, if anything, those results said about Nietzsche. But I suggested that he look there for more info.<br /><br />So, in his announcement of his Nation essay at his blog, Corey writes the following:<br /><br />"How many teenage boys, after all, have found their way into the free market via Nietzsche? None, one insider tells me; a lot, says another. My impression is that the latter is right, but good data is hard to come by. Every ten years, Liberty Magazine polls its readers about their intellectual influences. The magazine draws up a list of candidates to vote on. Nietzsche is never on it. Even so, he gets written in each time by the readers. So much so that the editors have been forced to acknowledge on more than one occasion that should they put his name on the pre-approved list of possible influences he might draw more votes than some if not many of the others."<br /><br />Curious, I followed the links to look at the original polling results. Two of the three survey don't give any specific numbers. But in the 1999 results, Nietzsche is described as having been written in by a bit under 2% of respondents (that is, about 12 people out of 600). Less than Jacob Hornberger, of whom I'm pretty confident Robin has never heard. Yet this is certainly not the impression with which one would have been left had they relied exclusively on Robins' writeup.<br /><br />It's a small point. But it's indicative, I think, of the way Robin approaches these issues. He began his inquiry with the answer already in mind - Nietzsche was an important source of influence for a lot of libertarians. He looked at the data to find support for this belief and, when he didn't, reported it in a way that makes him sound as though he was right after all."Humehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00471731654454581518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-70759621408104819022013-05-15T14:36:23.900-04:002013-05-15T14:36:23.900-04:00I don't see that the two things are really mut...I don't see that the two things are really mutually exclusive.vimothynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-14833375648645766302013-05-15T13:26:27.993-04:002013-05-15T13:26:27.993-04:00It's not made to troll us, or it wouldn't ...It's not made to troll us, or it wouldn't need to be so long. It's made for people on his side to agree with.<br />Currenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08645195276844244481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-76047664742353078882013-05-15T13:08:36.962-04:002013-05-15T13:08:36.962-04:00Probably a little. Probably a little. Daniel Kuehnwhttp://www.factsandotherstubbornthings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-12520329967666870012013-05-15T13:08:01.729-04:002013-05-15T13:08:01.729-04:00I'm neither an Austrian nor a libertarian, but...I'm neither an Austrian nor a libertarian, but it is obvious (this is one of those times where it is in fact obvious what's obvious) that Robin is trolling Austrians.vimothynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-40305099251247295802013-05-15T12:52:31.307-04:002013-05-15T12:52:31.307-04:00Daniel, I could criticise it in detail, and you kn...Daniel, I could criticise it in detail, and you know I could. Kevin Vallier already has over on Bleeding Heart Libertarians. But, it would be a waste of time. It's just a hatchet job written by a mediocre Marxist with too much time on his hands. There are better things to do.<br />Currenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08645195276844244481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-79490808289018800692013-05-15T12:45:43.391-04:002013-05-15T12:45:43.391-04:00The Corey Rubin essay is very disappointing, speci...The Corey Rubin essay is very disappointing, specially because there are several similarities betweeen Hayek and Nietzsche: both had an evolutionary approach regarding culture and mind, for example. The whole thing about value seems to be an unecessary digression when there are some explicits connections that could be made. <br /><br />The political commentaries of Nietzsche is also very problematic to wrote about: his writing have a more critical instance of political activity itself, (at least the Politics understood as an autonomous activity) than a vigorous problem with socialism in particular. Renato C. Drumondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02007439072853323430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-42552722382090848702013-05-15T12:37:03.493-04:002013-05-15T12:37:03.493-04:00Hi, Daniel. Thanks for the kind words; glad you en...Hi, Daniel. Thanks for the kind words; glad you enjoyed the piece. I had a question I wanted to ask you about something you wrote, but can't find your email address. Could you email me at corey.robin@gmail.com. Thanks, CoreyCorey Robinhttp://coreyrobin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-73839681971759273842013-05-15T12:19:57.934-04:002013-05-15T12:19:57.934-04:00Let's face it, people preface comments with &q...Let's face it, people preface comments with "less face it" when they want to make people who come across those comments feel silly for being skeptical of the comment itself.Daniel Kuehnhttp://www.factsandotherstubbornthings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740670447258719504.post-12935925857224087662013-05-15T12:17:20.724-04:002013-05-15T12:17:20.724-04:00Let's face it, associating anyone with Nietzch...Let's face it, associating anyone with Nietzche is an effort to smear them. This is just another effort to smear Austrian economics. It's only made to look superficially like an actual examination of people's thoughts. It doesn't stand up to any careful analysis.Currenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08645195276844244481noreply@blogger.com