"John, your Econ videos sparked a permanent change in how I view both economics and politics. The videos are optimistic and positive, they rang true for me and inspired me to investigate further. I'm sure many other people have had a similar response.I had minimal economics training but you (who have also had minimal economics training) have taught me that the demand side mentality is inherently pro-war, pro-terrorism, and pro-natural disaster.
I wish more people were simply aware that there's a controversy, and that the stakes are huge. I hadn't considered that the demand-side mentality is inherently pro-war, pro-terrorism, and pro-natural disaster (believing the clean-up is an aggregate good), before watching the vids. (I had minimal Econ training.) It is so very important for people to hear that! Please make more videos if you can."
When people say Papola presents a distorted and unhelpful picture of economics to a credulous youtube public this is what they mean. John Papola is a professional producer. He gets paid to do that because he's good at it. Just like I was and am paid to do economics - because I'm pretty good at it. The idea that this talented producer doesn't know that this is the message that a lot of people are getting from his video sounds implausible to me.
To quote David Glasner, "enough already".
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Another example from the exact same thread - people alternately (1.) musing why Papola's sort of preferred economists are not respected in the field (I think this is an exaggeration, but it's their musing), and (2.) calling economists whores.
ReplyDeleteJust a thought - just spit-balling here - but maybe the fact that you call them whores is related to how they perceive you.
"I hadn't considered that the demand-side mentality is inherently pro-war, pro-terrorism, and pro-natural disaster "
ReplyDeleteBeyond the fact that they encourage debate I'm not a big fan on his videos either. But seriously, can you point me to one where a fair-minded person with or without a knowledge of economics could come away with that view that Keynsians support terrorism ?
1. If we limited our discussion to fair-minded people, that would leave a lot of human beings out.
Delete2. Right, I think this is harder for a fair-minded person to accept - but that crap was in there precisely to plant seeds even with fair-minded people (even though they wouldn't say something like this). Fair minded people definitely accept crap about the distinction being one of "bottom up vs. top down" or that Keynes is popular because it's good for politicians or that econometric work isn't really science.
If all you read was Krugman's blog you would have the impression that Austrians are all austerity-loving, gold-freaks predicting hyper-inflation. Would you apply the same criticism about parodying other's views to him ?
DeleteThe austerity point is pretty accurate, no? I haven't come across any Austrians agreeing with Krugman on the need to oppose austerity and it's certainly an important component of the Hayek that I'm familiar with.
DeleteBeyond that point which Krugman seems to have right, I've long said that Krugman has an uninformed view of Austrian economics. That's one of the reasons I (initially) said the Krugman/Murphy debate was a bad idea.
Krugman, though, dumbs down the economics of the Austrian school (although in its Ron Paul or Peter Schiff manifestations it was pretty bad to begin with, and that is often who Krugman references). As far as I know he's never called them pro-war or argued they were trying to plan society.
Krugman doesn't talk about Austrians all that often. I think I've probably linked to him and criticized any unfairness every time he has. Anyway, none of those posts have multi-million page views and as far as I know they haven't been presented as course material in a single economics class. Papola's work has.
DeleteThat's not to let Krugman off the hook - as I noted, I've acknowledged many times how bad his understanding of Austrian economics is. But there's a good reason why I exert a little more effort when it comes to Papola. You also have to remember, there's a ton of people out there correcting Krugman - there's not a lot of people correcting Papola. That's the advantage an entertaining presentation and good production value gives you.
So those things of course go into decisions about where to make an effort.
"The austerity point is pretty accurate, no?"
DeleteKrugma defines "Austerianism" as opposition to fiscal stimulus and support for a smaller deficit. Austrians think that beyond the short term this would lead to greater prosperity not austerity so no - the point about austerity is not accurate. Its just an example of choosing terminology to make your opponents look bad rather than addressing their real points.
And Delong makes Krugman look impartial in his handling of Austrian economics.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with this one. I think Brad has thought very carefully about them. Certainly well exceeding the care that the typical Austrian economist takes with Keynesianism.
DeleteOK I will concede on this one. I just googled "delong on austrian economics" and I agree that while he is generally pretty impolite to Austrians he does have a good understanding of the Austrian framework.
DeleteObjectively pro-criminal, pro-war, and pro-terrorist sentiments your expressing here Daniel. ;)
ReplyDeleteThe video was made by Russ Roberts too, so I'm not sure the fact that Papola has minimal training is a rebuttal by itself.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's a rebuttal even if it was just John.
DeleteOne is forced to consider exactly where the insights come from. People who spend huge chunks of their lives studying this stuff still feel like they are nipping at the edges.
Is it part of the economic scientific method to make arguments using guilt-by-association with cherry-picked YouTube comments? My gosh. And this from the staunch defender of the "science" of economic study.
ReplyDeleteThis is science. It isn't reasonable. And the comment you're quoting is drawing conclusions which cannot be taken from the content of my videos.
Her conclusion CAN be deduced from the popular writing of Paul Krugman and Larry Summers, however, who've collectively written that 9/11, the Iraq War, the Japan Tsunami and alien invasion preparation are all good for the economy.