I've been pretty disappointed in the lack of coverage following abortionist Kermit Gosnell's charges, especially in light of the immense coverage and scrutiny of the pro-life movement following Scott Roeder's murder of George Tiller in 2009. Perhaps this is another example of our inability to consider and properly respond to our own violence (Roeder's fringe identity surely brings him into the orbit of the crazy/terrorist label I discussed earlier). I doubt this alone explains it, though. Gosnell could easily be seen as a quite disturbed person as well, so it's not as if we're lacking a simplistic journalistic narrative to attach to him. The heart of it, I think, is that there just isn't the same sort of public association of the pro-choice mainstream with an abetting of murder the way there is for the pro-life mainstream, so Roeder gets tied to the pro-life banner more generally while the media is not associating Gosnell with the pro-choice banner. I would hazard to guess that the Gosnell case has been buried quite intentionally, even though many more people died at his hands than at Roeder's.
That's all preface, though, and not really the point of what I wanted to write about. What interests me is the extent to which the Gosnell abortions really damage one of the prominent arguments made by pro-choice folks for legalizing abortions... that if abortions are illegal, they will simply go on in back alleys and under very unsafe conditions. Legalization allows regulation of procedure.
It's an ironic sort of argument in the first place. Obama and others tout it under the mantra, "safe and legal", but its form is eerily similar to the gun-happy Second Amendment fetishists who say that if you make gun ownership illegal, only criminals will have guns. A confluence of ideological opposites as American as apple pie, I suppose.
With Gosnell's clinic exposed, we see an even greater reason to doubt whether this argument is anything more than mere rhetoric. What's so great about clinics that can operate under the freedom of the law when oversight is so atrocious as to allow Gosnell's clinic? Selwyn Duke wrote about this yesterday at length, and offered some information about the lack of oversight in Pennsylvania. And this isn't even new with Gosnell. It seems unwise to assume that the legal system isn't overlooking other similar cases as we speak.
Will the argument that legal abortions prevent unsafe procedures be convincing anymore? How can anyone really take it seriously, when there are multiple demonstrations of the fact that back-alley style procedures currently face such spotty oversight?
If pro-choice legislators hope to regain our trust, and to keep using the "safe and legal" slogan, will they start by investigating the Pennsylvania system of oversight that allowed this to happen, and taking the proper legal response to those officials who cost so many women and children their lives? Further, will they cease to condemn restrictions on abortions such as mandatory monitoring beforehand or various standards of inspection and consent as "anti-choice"? How are these regulative efforts anything but completely in line with the "safe and legal" principle? Until now it's been the pro-life politicians who have been pushing for stricter regulation of abortion practices even though the pro-choice politicians have enjoyed so much political gain from the rhetoric of safety and regulation of procedure. This sort of simultaneous piggy-backing and demonizing of the pro-life cause is becoming increasingly transparent.
Will these abortion clinic killings create a space for progressive political action in the direction that the pro-life movement has been advocating for years? Unfortunately, I doubt the tragedy will have very much effect if the media silence on it so far is any indication.
Liveblogging World War II: May 24, 1943
3 hours ago


This is an odd argument, Evan. Someone who breaks the law weakens the pro-choice cause? That's akin to saying that people who kill abortion doctors weaken the pro-life cause. Should I look at your arguments as being less plausible because of Tiller's killing? I would hope not.
ReplyDeleteWhen proceedures are done unsafely we prosecute the quacks - we don't outlaw the proceedure. It's precisely the same logic as the gun-rights logic that if we outlaw guns only criminals will have it. That's solid logic. But it does not follow that no criminals will have guns if you legalize guns, or that no quacks will endanger women's lives if you legalize abortion. That is not the argument, Evan. The argument is that attempts to outlaw guns or abortions on the basis of these deviations (criminals or quacks or back-alley abortionists) is at best an ineffective and at worst and insincere solution to the problem you claim to be concerned about.
Nobody claims that legalization eliminates the prospect of dangerous abortions. The claims is it reduces that prospect. And many would claim that even if it didn't reduce that prospect, that's no reason not to legalize.
I think you are far too sensitive about views of the pro-life mainstream abetting murder either. Who thinks this? The people who have blamed are guys like O'Reilly who target and harass law-abiding citizens and direct the killers to him. Nobody that I know of says this is a blemish on the pro-life mainstream. If the pro-life mainstream is critiqued for anything, it's for attempting to deny women the right to certain medical treatment. It's not critiqued for abetting murder in any sort of encompassing way.
O'Reilly - is he abetting murder? That may or may not be the case. But that's an entirely different question.
This isn't just about quacks or back-alley abortions, though. I don't doubt that such people can be tracked down and prosecuted in a situation of legalized abortion. The problem is that there are severe shortfalls with abortion regulation, and any attempt to tighten control of the industry is met with accusations of attempted pro-life political coups.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if you've read my post very carefully. I wasn't saying that Gosnell's killings themselves are an argument for making abortion illegal. I wasn't even saying that abortion should be illegal (although I do think that it should be except in very limited situations)! My critique was of the government oversight of abortions, which has led to Gosnell working not in a back alley, but in a clinic and without inspection, for years. Why have you overlooked that? When did I say that Gosnell's particular criminal actions deflate any arguments for abortions? It's the criminal negligence of the state of Pennsylvania that strikes me as the most damning aspect of all this.
And this is EXACTLY the problem that I pointed out in the post... people try to raise reasonable points about regulation, and they're read without care and dismissed for points that they never made.
Also, the gun rights similarity was a passing comment, and I didn't use it toward the end of any argument... it was a side comment about something I took to be a peculiar (and sometimes lovable!) phenomenon of American politics. I can't make any sense of all the argument that you go on to attribute to me, supposedly based on the gun rights analogy. See my above comment on why I think you're just reading me sloppily here.
ReplyDeleteFinally, this article was linked in the piece by Duke, and should probably be featured more prominently. Great quote here:
ReplyDeleteEd Rendell, the Pennsylvania Democrat whose second term as governor ended last week, released a statement saying he was "flabbergasted" when he learned of the department's lax scrutiny of abortion clinics and immediately ordered increased inspections, the Associated Press reported.
Still, the earlier policy had its defenders. According to the grand jury report, when the Department of Health's chief lawyer was asked about it, she responded, "People die."
No, I get that point Evan. I'm wondering precisely why you don't simply say we need to regulate it better. You write this: "The heart of it, I think, is that there just isn't the same sort of public association of the pro-choice mainstream with an abetting of murder the way there is for the pro-life mainstream, so Roeder gets tied to the pro-life banner more generally while the media is not associating Gosnell with the pro-choice banner", but I fail to understand who is tying Roeder to the pro-life banner and why you think it's so controversial to treat Roeder and Gosnell differently. I would think we should treat them exactly the same - as two murderers.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be saying "people think Roeder is a posterboy for the pro-life movement and nobody gets that outraged about Gosnell - why should pro-choicers be considered paragons of safety". All I'm saying is I wasn't aware anyone thought Roeder should be tied to the pro-life movement (except for a few extreme pro-choicers who might think this... but then you'll have that extreme no matter what). I'm not aware why Gosnell should be tied to the pro-choice movement. I'm not aware why a failure to regulate should be tied to the pro-choice movement - it should be blamed on regulators, should it not?
Now - "people die". This is true. There will be violations that will slip through the cracks, and that's life. I can agree with that assessment. This doesn't seem to me to justify murder on the part of guys like Gosnell, does it?
If you're claim is only "we should regulate more effectively", then why not just say that? Why say stuff like:
ReplyDelete"The heart of it, I think, is that there just isn't the same sort of public association of the pro-choice mainstream with an abetting of murder the way there is for the pro-life mainstream, so Roeder gets tied to the pro-life banner more generally while the media is not associating Gosnell with the pro-choice banner."
Clearly "the heart of it" for you isn't that regulators should do their job better. "The heart of it" for you is some sort of social tendency in the assignment of blame.
If "the heart of it" was that we should regulate the industry better, you would have written a much different post.
Oh, and of course this gem: "I would hazard to guess that the Gosnell case has been buried quite intentionally, even though many more people died at his hands than at Roeder's."
ReplyDeleteYes, clearly it's lax regulation that you're trying to hihglight here.
I think one of the reasons why you saw the Tiller murder highlighted was that it wasn't just that charges were being brought - it was a breaking news attack. It wasn't hidden, it was out in the open. And it happened at the egging on of a national news personality. If you had someone on MSNBC egging on illegal abortions and proclaiming that abortion clinics shouldn't be sterile and that back-alley abortions were fine cause they got the job done - and if there was a plausible way to tie Gosnell's action to the words of this MSNBC news personality I think you'd have lot's of coverage. What we have instead is no egging on, a dangerous heinous quack of which there are many who didn't get caught in the midst of some outrageous daytime act, but who simply has had charges brought against him for lots of previously committed crimes that have now come to light. I've been googling and found pretty broad coverage of the incident. It's not making the talk shows, though, because it doesn't share those other elements with Roeder I'm guessing. That's not especially surprising.
If a politician wants abortions to be legal but safely regulated, I would call that politician "pro-choice", wouldn't you? I don't care if they don't like abortion. I don't like abortion. Lot's of people don't like abortion. That is a "pro-choice" position. So I'm not sure where you're going with trying to juxtapose that with pro-choice politics.
ReplyDeleteHow is it a direction that pro-lifers have been advocating to advocate "save and legal"? Isn't this INHERENTLY a non-pro-life direction? Pro-life is a sketchy term, though. Pro-choice is fairly clear. You want women to have the choice to have abortions, and like all medical proceedures its assumed that some regulation will happen and people vary on what that regulation will be. "Pro-life", it would seem to me, is the position that abortion should not be legal. Is that right? Hard to say - its a squishy term. But I would have thought anything that goes under the rubric "safe but legal" is not pro-life by virtue of that "but legal".
Right?
If you're claim is only "we should regulate more effectively", then why not just say that? Why say stuff like [...]
ReplyDeleteBecause I was under the mistaken assumption that folks could identify cues like "That's all preface, though, and not really the point of what I wanted to write about."
How is it a direction that pro-lifers have been advocating to advocate "save and legal"? Isn't this INHERENTLY a non-pro-life direction?
ReplyDeleteI take it that the "legal" aspect of the soundbyte simply makes reference to the state of affairs post-Roe-v.-Wade. Advocating stricter regulation doesn't need to be advocacy of the current legal situation... it's an incrementalist position, that's all. C'mon, Daniel, you're smarter than this.
And the point of my post (now that we're FINALLY somewhat on topic) is that the incrementalist position of pro-life politicians and other advocates is actually doing more to try and fulfill some of the promises about safety that pro-choice folks have often and continue to use to their benefit, all the while pro-choice politicians in Pennsylvania and elsewhere are asleep at the wheel on regulation or actively combating pro-life attempts at regulation by arguing that it's a trojan horse, even though it should be seen as something perfectly amenable to pro-choice goals concerning safe procedures.
ReplyDeleteDidn't you make an argument like this in your 1920-21 Depression article? I'm not clear on why you're stumbling over the idea of overlapping goals or strategies between normally opposed ideological camps.
I'm not saying that someone who considers him or herself "pro-life" couldn't advocate a "safe but legal" position as a pragmatic, incremental position. But it is a pro-choice position they would be holding, right? I think you're too caught up in the labels.
ReplyDeleteI'm not aware of the background on Pennsylvania. Are the pro-choicers there unconcerned about regulating these facilities and the pro-lifers advocate for legal but well-regulated facilities? That sounds like an extremely odd and unfortunate state of affairs, but clearly I would be on the people who call themselves pro-lifers' side if what you suggest is true. But the way you frame it just strikes me as being very odd, and I don't see why you don't see that the framing is odd. It would be like after the financial crisis getting frustrated with people who want sound regulation of the finance industry because the SEC previously did a poor job at regulating the finance industry. Why would you even think about associating lax regulators with people who want a safe, legal, well regulated option. I'm still trying to figure out how that free association worked for you. I don't know the Pennsylvania system and perhaps that's all there is to it. Perhaps the pro-choicers there are lacksadaisical and non-chalant towards medical malpractice the pro-lifers are pragmatists. If tat's what its like in Pennsylvania I guess your concerns make sense and you can count me in with the pragmatic pro-lifers. But somehow I feel that that characterization is just papering over a deeper frustration.
And please - don't try to pass this off on your preface line. You complain about demonization of pro-lifers at the end too. When I was taught how to write, the thing that you both start by stating succinctly and that you restate succinctly at the end is your main point.
You complain about demonization of pro-lifers at the end too.
ReplyDeleteYeah, and I even use the word "demonize". But that was over the issue of proposed regulations on the abortion industry that have been rejected by pro-choice politicians as covert attempts to overturn the gains of Roe v. Wade. Which, I suppose, is my response to your second paragraph here concerning the background of Pennsylvania. For more details, I linked an article in the comment above about findings concerning Pennsylvania decisions. It was the Dept. of Health and Tom Ridge's governor's office that made decisions over inspections, apparently. More generally, the point about demonizing the pro-life cause when regulative measures are proposed speaks to the issue beyond Pennsylvania. My claim is that while people say they want safe regulations, they have continuously rejected these regulations as being barriers against women seeking abortions. I don't doubt that after an event like this they'll continue to reassert their commitment to safety regulations, I'm just wondering when they're actually going to follow through with it. Pro-life politicians have pushed for these things in legislation for a while now. It's not as if there haven't been opportunities to scrutinize matters before.
Now, in Pennsylvania apparently a bunch of people complained about Gosnell's clinic and were ignored. I'm not saying that these complaints were just from pro-life folks and that pro-choice folks didn't give a damn. I've got no idea who was raising a red flag there. But these red flags were consistently ignored by some of the very people who talk about "safe and legal".
I'm not trying to claim any knowledge that would implicate every single pro-choice person, if that's what you're looking for here. I think I was plenty specific about the object of my critique.
I'm not saying that someone who considers him or herself "pro-life" couldn't advocate a "safe but legal" position as a pragmatic, incremental position. But it is a pro-choice position they would be holding, right? I think you're too caught up in the labels.
ReplyDelete"Safe and legal" is pro-choice. I'm saying that there are embarrassing examples of pro-choice folks falling short on the "safe" part of this saying and yet continuing to profit from the repetition of it, while pro-life advocacy for stricter regulations, if enacted, would have made legal abortions safer. Are you getting tripped up on my title? Thinking that because I ask who owns "safe and legal" I'm implying that the pro-life folks do?
"My claim is that while people say they want safe regulations, they have continuously rejected these regulations as being barriers against women seeking abortions."
ReplyDeleteName me a single pro-choicer who disputes regulatory prohibitions of killing born babies with scissors, regulatory requirements for sterile work areas, or regulatory requirements for sound anesthetics on the basis of it being a trojan horse.
But these sorts of regulation aren't the problem... that stuff is all on the books. Granting that all of these regulations are good and supported by everyone, what sort of other absent regulatory measures kept Gosnell open for business and licensed, kept women coming to him, and kept the state from any sort of inspection until stumbling upon it by accident? You don't seriously think the above regulations are adequate, do you? Or that Gosnell is some anomaly that couldn't have been predicted given the current state of the system? Or that he's the only one out there doing this?
ReplyDeleteWell, we could just go back to exposure:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.stoa.org/diotima/anthology/wlgr/wlgr-privatelife249.shtml
I was expecting a flame war, but not solely involving the Kuehn brothers!
ReplyDelete